There was the boyfriend who wore bunion correctors that clacked across the apartment. The sweat-slathered man who downed a sandwich and beer each time after sex. The one who took morning baths. Since Rayna Greenberg and Ashley Hesseltine started the podcast Girls Gotta Eat in 2018, listeners have baragged them with their most outlandish relationship questions for their “Is This Weird?” segment. Is my significant other just quirky? they ask. Or is there something really strange going on? Usually, it’s a mix of both.

Girls Gotta Eat provides answers to “everything from anal to finances,” Greenberg says. The show centers on advice wrapped in comedy, providing answers to the everyday questions that plague our modern dating hellscape. When should you sleep with someone you’re seeing? When do you know you’re with the wrong person? What message should you send on an app? “Dating is terrible,” Ashley laughs. “Everyone’s gone through this stuff. It’s rough out there.”

In the two years since its launch, Girls Gotta Eat has become their full-time job—both the podcast and the live shows they host across the country (they’re about to embark on their 50th of the year). During the shows, dancers strut to Beyonce, and Ashley and Rayna swipe through audience members’ dating apps live on stage. After a week of touring, they met in Rayna’s apartment in the East Village to talk about body language, blindsiding, and why men should delete their car selfies.

A lot of the podcast is focused around giving advice to your listeners. Does it ever feel weird speaking from a place of authority on dating? How did you become comfortable in that position?

RG: Day one, I wouldn’t have said I’m a relationships expert. I would say I’m a person who’s dated a lot, I’ve made a lot of mistakes, here’s things in the past I would have loved to have changed. Today, I would say we’ve actually had so many incredible people on the show—so many therapists, psychiatrists, writers, just people in general—that I would say we are really experts in this. At this point I do feel very empowered to give advice to people, and you can take it or leave it.

AH: I went through a relationship that was at one point super in love, then really volatile. I was in therapy for about six months trying to figure out why this relationship wasn’t working. I just started becoming obsessed with relationships. I was learning so much about people’s trauma and how they carry it into their relationship—that’s what made me want to start the podcast.

RG: I also went through something pretty traumatic. My fiancé left me when I was 27, and I remember feeling so alone. I didn’t know who to talk to. I didn’t know anyone who had ever gone through this. Of course you can go on a message board on the Internet, but I remember feeling really humiliated and alone because all of my girlfriends were engaged, getting married, and all of a sudden that time in my life was over. I wish something like our podcast had existed then.

What are the most common questions you get from listeners?

RG: A lot of people ask about dating apps—what are good opening lines, how to not get fatigued. A lot like, “Hey, I like this guy and he hasn’t responded to me in a while, what’s the next step?” A lot of stuff about like, “I’m in a relationship and I don’t know if this really is the one and I feel sorta lukewarm”; “I’m so in love, but this is so toxic and I don’t know how to fix this.”

So how can someone figure out if they’re not in the right relationship? I think the idea of being lukewarm in a relationship, where nothing’s capital B-Bad but you don’t feel 100% on board, can be hard to pin down.

RG: I would say when I look back on my best relationship ever, it’s somebody who I didn’t think about throughout the day—I was focused, I was sharp, I could do my job, I could be present. But he was the first call I wanted to make when something good or bad happened. I never for once thought, Well is he into me? What does that mean? We get a million emails that are just like, “Well, he’s doing this and that”—he’s playing games. He’s not that into you. You can wait it out, it might work, but I’ve never had a successful relationship that started like that.

AH: If someone wants to see you, they will see you. Bottom line. If they are constantly making excuses and stringing you along, they just don’t want to date you.

RG: I know what it feels like when somebody wants me. They make a plan ahead of time, they commit to it, and they see me. If I have to follow up and check in and ask, “Hey are we still on for tomorrow?”, that person didn’t really want to see me.

What are the biggest mistakes men make on dating apps?

AH: Shirtless selfies. Car selfies. Get better photos across the board.

RG: Do anything you can to make yourself unique or set yourself apart. Every single person’s profile I see says, “I love to travel, be with friends and be outdoors.” That’s everybody alive.

AH: Don’t lie about your height. You can give yourself half an inch. But the second I see you and you lied about something, we’re done.

You talk about meeting people “in the wild.” A lot of people are tired by the apps, but feel embarrassed to approach someone they see out in the world.

RG: We had a great experience with these guys the other night. We were sitting at the bar, and they walked up and ordered a drink through us, basically, but they were just like, Hey, what are you guys getting into tonight? We turned around and our body language was open to them. I think you can tell pretty quickly when somebody wants to have a conversation with you.

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AH: You can look at someone and smile. Nobody’s ever going to be like, Did you see that bitch, she’s crazy, she smiled at me. I always say the best thing is observing what’s happening around you. If you’re waiting in line for something—these guys started talking to us while were in line at a club in Minnesota, like, Can you believe it’s taking so long? I love a little sarcasm, a little complaining. You can say most anything that’s not some creepy line, and you’ll know if they want to talk to you or not. I don’t knock men for coming up and approaching me, ever. I hate when they don’t know the cue to leave.

There’s a segment on your show called “Mansplaining,” when male guests explain certain behaviors. Have they told you anything that surprised you?

AH: When someone watches your IG story, it means nothing. Nothing! He doesn’t want to date you. He might be on the toilet. One guy we had on actually said if he’s into you, he’ll purposefully not watch.

Are there certain mistakes that come up over and over again in the podcast? What do you think are the most common problems people have in dating?

RG: I’m so guilty of this—feeling this anxiety of what’s next. When am I going to see them next? How much should they be texting me? Everyone needs to relax a little bit. You don’t need to see a person every night in the beginning of a relationship. Two days a week is fine.

AH: I think a huge problem a lot of men have is not communicating when they feel like things are wrong in the relationship, and then they blindside a woman with a breakup. They’re keeping a tally of the things going wrong, and you have no idea and think your relationship is fine. We had this comedian Andrew Shulz on, and he said with women he’s dated casually and realized there was no future with, he didn’t ghost, he didn’t bench them and keep them around for a blowjob here and there. He said, “I don’t see a relationship here,” and the women were overwhelmingly grateful.

RG: Walking away sucks and it’s uncomfortable. We always preach: Just have the conversation. It feels terrible.

You bring up your relationship with each other on the podcast, how managing such an intense friendship has taught you about relationships in general. What have you learned?

AH: My relationship with Rayna is unlike anything I’ve ever experienced, where we have this business together and spend all of our time together and and navigate a different airport every other day. It’s like we're family but we’re still friends but we’re also business partners—it’s a lot.

RG: We don’t sit together on planes, we don’t stay together in hotels. We really do our own thing.

When the podcast started, Ashley talked about wanting to be engaged within the year. Now you often say you’re not sure you want to ever get married. How has the podcast impacted your philosophies on your own relationships?

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AH: Mine has changed drastically. It’s such a shift. I genuinely wanted to be engaged then. I really liked my life, but I knew there was something more. When we created this podcast, it all came together. I was like, “Oh I am so wildly fulfilled, and I don’t really need anything else in my life besides sex.” I have a dog and I love my apartment and I feel like I finally have it all. Aside from the penetration.

RG: It changes all the time as we do the show longer. I think for me, I take things less personally, and I’m also less tolerant of certain behaviors that I think are unkind and noncommittal. I’m much quicker to say, Hey, what’s going on here? I see the writing on the wall a lot faster.

You often talk about how past traumas influence a current relationship. There’s a theme on the show of understanding and processing your past before you’re able to be in a relationship.

RG: I think we both agree the number one thing we try to promote in the show is just to have a life that you are proud of. A relationship should just be an addition to it. Don’t be afraid to be single, don’t be afraid to leave a relationship, don’t be afraid to suggest things within a relationship that you desperately want to hold onto. And don’t back yourself into a position where your partner is the only thing in your life. I never heard that growing up.

Do you think there’s anything revolutionary about that message?

AH: Everything. I think that sets us apart and make us the best podcast that’s ever been – please say I said that sarcastically.

RG: Every episode I’m like, if we don’t win a Pulitzer…

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity.

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